If you weren’t a sprinkler fitter, and now the president of the Wisconsin Pipe Trades Association, what do you think you would be doing in an alternate universe?

You might laugh at this, but if I hadn’t gotten into the trades, I was going to be an accountant. That was the path I was on before I got exposed to the trades.

When I was in high school, I worked as a summer helper. That exposed me to the trades, and that’s where I made the decision that this was what I wanted to do.

I’m glad you made that choice. I really cannot picture you as an accountant. Although I do hear math matters in your craft. That can be a sticking point for people getting into the trades, so at least you had that covered.

Actually, taking accounting and business classes in high school helped me when I became a union leader. Understanding finances and how those pieces work has helped me in that role as well.

We are not union bosses. We are elected by our membership. If we aren’t doing our job, we will be replaced, just like the people sitting over at the Capitol.

I think that is helpful to remind policymakers, and the public as a whole. Unions are built as democratic bodies. Leaders are elected democratically. Contracts do not get ratified unless the membership is behind them.

That is unique. I think it is one of the reasons unions have operated in Wisconsin for more than 130 years. You cannot go wrong when you are crowdsourcing how your organization runs, makes decisions, and grows.

One quick story I like to share with legislators is about my own son, who is about to become a journeyman steamfitter with Local 601. At 21 years old, he purchased his first house.

Where does that happen outside of our world? The quick answer is, it doesn’t.

If you weren’t a sprinkler fitter, and now the president of the Wisconsin Pipe Trades Association, what do you think you would be doing in an alternate universe?

You might laugh at this, but if I hadn’t gotten into the trades, I was going to be an accountant. That was the path I was on before I got exposed to the trades.

When I was in high school, I worked as a summer helper. That exposed me to the trades, and that’s where I made the decision that this was what I wanted to do.

I’m glad you made that choice. I really cannot picture you as an accountant. Although I do hear math matters in your craft. That can be a sticking point for people getting into the trades, so at least you had that covered.

Actually, taking accounting and business classes in high school helped me when I became a union leader. Understanding finances and how those pieces work has helped me in that role as well.

We are not union bosses. We are elected by our membership. If we aren’t doing our job, we will be replaced, just like the people sitting over at the Capitol.

I think that is helpful to remind policymakers, and the public as a whole. Unions are built as democratic bodies. Leaders are elected democratically. Contracts do not get ratified unless the membership is behind them.

That is unique. I think it is one of the reasons unions have operated in Wisconsin for more than 130 years. You cannot go wrong when you are crowdsourcing how your organization runs, makes decisions, and grows.

One quick story I like to share with legislators is about my own son, who is about to become a journeyman steamfitter with Local 601. At 21 years old, he purchased his first house.

Where does that happen outside of our world? The quick answer is, it doesn’t.

You came up as a top man and pipe layer doing sewer work in southern Wisconsin. Then you moved into organizing and other roles, and now leadership. How does that background shape your leadership of the union today?

Every stage of my career brings different experiences that shape how I want to lead our organization.

I have been the member working out in the field. I have worked in the elements. I have dealt with rain days, layoffs, and living on unemployment.

When we talk about the political and legislative work we do, I am always reminding myself where I came from and what our members are going through. That helps me be a voice for them in the work we do.

Why would I wanna leave this? You’re a Madison kid, just like me. Um, became a You’re a Madison kid, just like me, and you became a third-generation laborer. Did you ever have a different career path in mind before you followed in your family’s footsteps?

Straight out of high school, I was still trying to figure out what I wanted to do. I was interested in culinary arts and cooking. I was looking at UW-Stout because they have a strong program.

I thought I would work for a summer, then pursue culinary arts. But I got into Laborers Local 464, and my first year in construction I made more than $70,000 and had great health and pension benefits.

After that, I thought, “Why would I want to leave this?”

They got me, and the rest of my career took off from there.

If a young Kent Miller showed up at your office today and asked for advice, what would you tell him that no one told you back then?

It took me a little while to understand what the union was, all the different benefits, and all the opportunities the union provides.

It took me a few years into my career before I started understanding the moving parts, participating, and going to monthly meetings.

I would tell a younger Kent: from day one, get involved with your union. Go to monthly meetings. Learn more. Ask questions.

The union is not just the leaders. The union is all of us coming together as one powerful voice that can accomplish all kinds of things. It is a democratic organization, and I did not truly recognize that until I became more involved.

If you could have dinner with anyone in labor history, the building trades, or the union movement, who would it be?

I would probably choose someone in the building trades who was very influential to me, and who we lost last year: my grandfather.

As you said, I am a third-generation laborer. Both my father and grandfather started doing laborers’ work and eventually became operators.

My grandfather was someone I could always talk to, whether it was about work or life. He had a lot of institutional knowledge. He knew the players in the industry and had strong relationships.

He was someone I could confide in and talk through challenges with. We would always grab dinner, whether it was at Toby’s or the Tornado Room. I miss those opportunities to spend time with him and talk shop.

Worker misclassification is the cancer in the industry. It has hurt the industry, taxpayers, responsible contractors, and the people who want an opportunity to join this organization.

That problem has plagued not just painters, but roofers and other trades that are not licensed. Those trades often have an easy entry point into the market.

There are 1,511 painting contractors in Wisconsin, so we are competing against a lot of companies. Many of our competitors in the non-union sector do have employees. But many others use a model where everybody is their own boss and an independent contractor.

What does that mean? They are not paying workers’ compensation. They are not paying unemployment. They are not paying business taxes. That gives them about a 30% advantage over our contractor partners.

I talk to painters and drywall finishers working non-union, and I ask them, “What’s your retirement plan?”

A lot of them say, “I’m going to die on the job site,” or “I’m going to work until I’m dead.” That is a common thread.

The total package for non-union painters and drywall finishers is often around $30 an hour, maybe $40 an hour on the high end. In that sense, they are paying $20 to $30 an hour in non-union dues because they are competing against our contractors and our members.

When you are talking to a non-union painter or drywall finisher, that can be hard for them to grasp. They may say, “I don’t want to pay dues. I shouldn’t have to pay any money to go to work.”

I understand what they are saying, but in practice, they kind of are paying dues. They are paying through lower wages, weaker benefits, and a system that allows others to cut corners and underbid responsible contractors.

I say this all the time: I do not believe we have a workforce shortage in Wisconsin. I believe we have a shortage of good union contractors.

That is especially true in the finishing trades, where workers are often the most vulnerable.

Last year alone, 506 people applied for an opportunity to become an apprentice painter, glazier, or drywall finisher. We just do not have enough contractors to place those people with.

People want to join the union. They want an opportunity. We just need the work and the contractor partners to put them to work.

Oh geez. That’s like the hardest question I think you’ve asked me. You’ve been doing this a long You have both been doing this for a long time. What still gets you fired up when you have a good day at work?

I like helping people. Anytime I can help somebody, whether it is a member, a new member, or a potential member, have the same opportunity I had to join this union and build a better life, that is what keeps me going.

Talking to existing members matters too. But when someone is on the edge of joining the union, or even just starting to think about joining the union for a better life, that is what really gets me fired up.

Moving forward in Winnebago County, we are going to prioritize responsible contractors and workers.

This goes back to what our union and other unions have been saying to members: we need working people in seats of power. We need to be at the table.

Because if you are not at the table, you are on the menu.

We have all seen that play out in plenty of situations.